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Post by fairchild on Jan 19, 2017 10:28:10 GMT -5
Hey guys, its me. I just wanted to say Im hyped about reading and reviewing DC2K. I really am. The starting point is Rebirth and that is a good point as any to pick. I wanted to add something though. It wasn't so much a series pitch, but more of an arc pitch. I also see in fanfic submission sites Authority, Stormwatch, and WildCATs. There was a good Stormwatch series on DC anthology (cuz I read multiple sites) but it always felt separated from the DC and read more like it was Wildstorm. Integrating those series into a fanfic universe is hard since DC never touched on them seriously. Which causes the dilemma that brings me to write this today.
We all know DC has rebooted many times over the years. Lets be real, its for sales. I eventually get hooked on a series and then, BAM - another reboot. We had Crisis, New52, and Rebirth. I find it very odd that all had Darkseid involved in it. That is always when I know the series is about to end is when Darkseid appears, lol. But...I would also like to add that Wildstorm (Earth 30) had Armageddon and then there was also Futures End with the fact that Brothers Eye was going to happen and pull a skynet and take over the world no matter what the DC heroes did. With the constant rebooting though, it makes it hard to actually establish the Wildstorm characters. Every Wildstorm character they used sucked. For the one time, I was glad they rebooted the DC cuz I wanted to forget those garbage ideas. Now they are integrating the Watchmen into the DC. Its probably going to end with Darkseid appearing.
I had an idea to actually open up the Wildstorm characters into the DC and still use Futures End and other stuff to build a linear universe since the Watchmen universe is going to eventually reveal itself as Earth 2 comes to an end. My idea is this:
- Maxwell Lord once mindwiped everyone on planet to forget him. Max has some xenophobic tendencies even though he too is now a meta. Since Max has such an issue with the modern metas, how about he/Checkmate discover Jenny Quantum but he knows they are not from his universe since Whitest Day/Blackest Night still happened, so he was away when the universes melded knowing someone like Midnighter should not exist. Void shows up in DC2K and again causes issues with Captain Atom as in Armageddon. - Spartan (from WildCATs) tech is used to help with the eventual Brother's Eye -OMAC project - You could have Grifter hunting down Wildstorm characters and rehacking their memories
its just an idea to bring a resolution to the DC2K universe so it isn't just left hanging? What do you guys think? Any other ideas
I don't know how you guys feel about Earth 2? I liked it. I liked young Alan Scott (though it brought up the whole Jade and Obsidian wipe) and I like Val-Zod and others. Any ideas on this for massive integration.
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Post by D. Golightly on Jan 19, 2017 12:02:47 GMT -5
I like the Spartan tech and Grifter ideas!
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Post by fairchild on Jan 19, 2017 12:21:43 GMT -5
I like the Spartan tech and Grifter ideas!
I was trying to streamline the two entities by using established crossover continuity for future submissions. Any pitch for WildCATs probably is going to be a hard one just due to WildCATs main following came from the Wildstorm universe. There DC versions are similar, and the power bases can be kept the same as DC, but their DC continuity is really awful. The whole Kherubem/Daemonite issue can be written as a lone series much like a Vertigo series, but it would eventually limit the scale of involvement if a writer used that focus on their writing. It would be like if someone wrote JLA and Darkseid storms the planet, then it would bring up then why didn't WildCATs help and just focus and Hellspont. Its the blending that makes it difficult, IMO, and I think if we (as DC/M2K) establish a rule or an arc now it would open up avenues for the future cuz we know DC isn't going to do it.
The Spartan idea was pretty easy, but I too like it.
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Post by travis on Jan 19, 2017 12:34:56 GMT -5
Yeah, all of DC's efforts to bring Windstorm into the DCU were pretty half-hearted. Shame as I like a lot of them, but it tends to be the fate of other properties DC scoops up. (Cut and paste any of my rants about the Charlton heroes here..)
Liking connecting Spartan to Brother Eye. Hate the Max Lord idea, but that's because I hate evil Max Lord in general.
Not sure if there needs to be a huge event story to integrate them. Reality just got reshuffled. So, you just write a Grifter story. If he ends up fighting Deadshot, then we know he's now part of the DCU. The WildCats can take on evil Thanagarian gun runners etc...same result.
Despite my dislike of big events in comics, I'd buy the first issue of the Dr. Manhatten vs Darkseid fight.
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Post by fairchild on Jan 19, 2017 13:20:31 GMT -5
Yeah, all of DC's efforts to bring Windstorm into the DCU were pretty half-hearted. Shame as I like a lot of them, but it tends to be the fate of other properties DC scoops up. (Cut and paste any of my rants about the Charlton heroes here..) Liking connecting Spartan to Brother Eye. Hate the Max Lord idea, but that's because I hate evil Max Lord in general. Not sure if there needs to be a huge event story to integrate them. Reality just got reshuffled. So, you just write a Grifter story. If he ends up fighting Deadshot, then we know he's now part of the DCU. The WildCats can take on evil Thanagarian gun runners etc...same result. Despite my dislike of big events in comics, I'd buy the first issue of the Dr. Manhatten vs Darkseid fight.
Its funny you mentioned the Thangarian aspect. I thought that too along with the Omega Men and the Lantern Corps.
The reshuffle idea is pretty right on point. I wanted to point out how starting the series would be difficult and that we should say this is what happens with Wildstorm series since they are not part of rebirth. You technically can write Authority or WildCATS or Gen13 the way we remember them from Wildstorm with only a few loopholes to deal with - and Im sure any writer could explain them - like how you mentioned Thangarians with the Kherubem. I just wanted a stated starting point concerning the Wildstorm line so it would make picking up the series easy for their starting point. Im not even going to mention how DC handled Icon and Hardwire.
As for Max Lord, I love the dude. I wrote a mini on comivine called Max dealing with him. You can tell the writers didn't know he would evolve into what he is now from his JLI days, but his mind powers are pretty uber.
How would you deal with Earth 2?
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Post by travis on Jan 19, 2017 14:23:17 GMT -5
Earth 2 is tricky, as I am such a classic JSA guy. I appreciated how they tried to build a JSA from the ground up and liked young GL and Young Flash, but the war with Apokolips dragged on forever, I hated jerk Mr. Terrific and then when they blew the planet up or something, I gave up and spent my money on getting the few All Star Squadron issues I was missing instead.
So, my first response is let's pretend it never happened...but personally, with the multi-verse back both versions of the JSA can be out there, so, write whichever one you like or invent a whole new version and think about what you would do if you could restart the JSA from day one.
That's kind of the approach I'm taking with Doom Patrol. Reality was broken and when it was put back together whatever versions of the DP I want to use are the ones that survived.
Do like the idea of WildCats tangling with all those great DC aliens and cosmic beings. Just so I don't sound too negative and grumpy, that part appeals.
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Post by fairchild on Jan 19, 2017 14:39:53 GMT -5
WildCATs in space...hmm, I like it. Throw in Atrocities and Sinestro here and there too. Hmm....
I too liked young GL and Flash. Thing is, I liked Prime Power Girl. If you add in sour Mr Terrific, then all the other characters were pretty much the same.
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Post by claypot on Jan 19, 2017 15:13:17 GMT -5
There have been many Wildstorm titles that can be brought into the DC2K universe:
GEN13 WELCOME TO TRANQUILITY DIVINE RIGHT DANGER GIRL CRIMSON BATTLE CHASERS
The last three were from another branch of Wildstorm, but Danger Girl and Crimson could work even if DG is now with IDW. I like to see a continuation of The Movement series that DC had as part of the New 52, as it had great new characters who could join the JLA or TT. Speaking of, maybe we could see Fairchild or Grunge join the Teen Titans and make Ivana a TT villain.
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Post by fairchild on Jan 19, 2017 15:43:54 GMT -5
There have been many Wildstorm titles that can be brought into the DC2K universe: GEN13 WELCOME TO TRANQUILITY DIVINE RIGHT DANGER GIRL CRIMSON BATTLE CHASERS The last three were from another branch of Wildstorm, but Danger Girl and Crimson could work even if DG is now with IDW. I like to see a continuation of The Movement series that DC had as part of the New 52, as it had great new characters who could join the JLA or TT. Speaking of, maybe we could see Fairchild or Grunge join the Teen Titans and make Ivana a TT villain.
The problem isn't the Wildstorm teams/characters. Its how to use them cuz their DC versions sucked. I was trying to establish how we could use their good Wildstorm versions due to cross series crossovers and the Rebirth. I had the idea of an establishment arc, but I think Travis had it pretty correct - I think writing them how you remember them would be fine and any loop holes that come up should be the writers job from DC2Ks Rebirth starting point. It would be sort of like when DC rebooted after Blackest Night and a lot of people asked did Blackest Night happen. It did and there are still some questionable loop holes, but it can be done. The Movement was okay. The current DC Titans series is great, but yeah, Gen 13 characters probably could be involved with them.
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iamcrute
Too Much Time On Your Hands
Posts: 76
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Post by iamcrute on Jan 19, 2017 16:18:23 GMT -5
I am a purist of sorts when it comes to teams who were created together for a reason. Gen-13, Runaways etc I don't think they work as well when they're split up from one another (I could be wrong, its just my gut and the right story could totally change my mind).
Seeing Gen-13 mixed into the DCU however would be cool. Seeing them facing off against villains and how their evil genetic organisation fits in with Cadmus etc in a total reboot.
I'd also like to see a Squadron Supreme style team using the Retaliators from the marvel analogies thrust into the DC universe....even for a bit
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Post by claypot on Jan 19, 2017 17:35:46 GMT -5
It would be good to see some of the Gen13 characters in TT to replace some of the "meh" Titans from New 52. Keep Tim Drake/Robin, Wonder Girl, Bart Allen/Kid Flash, and Me'gan/ Miss Martian. With Connor Kent in Action Comics, maybe Fairchild could be his replacement.
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Post by Stephen Crosby on Jan 19, 2017 18:10:45 GMT -5
I'm a fan of elements of the Wildstorm universe, mainly the Moore/Charest run on WildCATS, and most of the later stuff right before The Authority conquered the US. When it comes to mysterious billionaires with alien ties trying to change the world, I'll take Jack Marlowe over Max Lord any day. And forget what Max Lord did to Superman; TAO talked Grifter into shooting an old friend and forget all about it. But that's a problem with incorporating Wildstorm into DC, there are so many redundancies. Variations of Superman include Majestic, the High, Apollo, maybe three that appeared in Planetary. Wildstorm had a rich, complicated history going back millennia that is impossible to integrate with DC. My take is that most of Wildstorm's history needs to be purged and the characters given a more-or-less fresh start within DC.
Kherubim exists, a stagnant culture that treats the defeated Daemonites as slaves. The ancient and powerful Hadrian wants to change this, remove the rot from his society before it dies. Learning of Earth, he decides to study it and commissions and expedition. A Coda warrior, an educated Titanthrope, a young apprentice from the Shaper's Guild, a pet Daemonite, and a Spartan android that Hadrian controls remotely while he stay behind on Kherubim to apply what they learn. The first human they encounter is Cole Cash, a soldier-of-fortune on the run from his last employer, a Tactical Augmented Organism who appears to be attempting to covertly takeover the world. Unwilling to see this society collapse before he can learn what he must, Hadrian directs his team of wild cards in covert actions to defend Earth so that it can in turn save Kherubim.
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Post by fairchild on Jan 19, 2017 18:34:20 GMT -5
I'm a fan of elements of the Wildstorm universe, mainly the Moore/Charest run on WildCATS, and most of the later stuff right before The Authority conquered the US. When it comes to mysterious billionaires with alien ties trying to change the world, I'll take Jack Marlowe over Max Lord any day. And forget what Max Lord did to Superman; TAO talked Grifter into shooting an old friend and forget all about it. But that's a problem with incorporating Wildstorm into DC, there are so many redundancies. Variations of Superman include Majestic, the High, Apollo, maybe three that appeared in Planetary. Wildstorm had a rich, complicated history going back millennia that is impossible to integrate with DC. My take is that most of Wildstorm's history needs to be purged and the characters given a more-or-less fresh start within DC. Kherubim exists, a stagnant culture that treats the defeated Daemonites as slaves. The ancient and powerful Hadrian wants to change this, remove the rot from his society before it dies. Learning of Earth, he decides to study it and commissions and expedition. A Coda warrior, an educated Titanthrope, a young apprentice from the Shaper's Guild, a pet Daemonite, and a Spartan android that Hadrian controls remotely while he stay behind on Kherubim to apply what they learn. The first human they encounter is Cole Cash, a soldier-of-fortune on the run from his last employer, a Tactical Augmented Organism who appears to be attempting to covertly takeover the world. Unwilling to see this society collapse before he can learn what he must, Hadrian directs his team of wild cards in covert actions to defend Earth so that it can in turn save Kherubim. Are you sort of suggesting just redoing WildCATs 1 with Void finding Marlowe but placing it in the DC universe with twists? Instead of Youngblood being sent the government sends Suicide Squad or something to that effect and branching the characters in DC2K direction from there? That is why I asked about when Captain Atom crossed over too. Tao was a BEAST! on another note, I could totally see Hawksmoor and Apollo taking on someone like Zod.
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Post by Stephen Crosby on Jan 19, 2017 20:32:12 GMT -5
I'm not personally advocating for any title based on Wildstorm characters. What I outlined above could simply be a backstory for a group of characters that Superman stumbles across. Now I'm envisioning Hellspont as an extreme Spartacus-type, committing vicious acts in the name of an enslaved people.
Matching the Teen Titans with Gen 13 is the go-to, but I'd actually love for Wonder Woman to encounter them. A brief clash with Fairchild, and Grunge faints from all the blood rushing from his brain. Better to simply their origin a bit, remove the Team 7 connection. Teenagers who were experimented on rebel into a super-frat.
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Post by claypot on Jan 19, 2017 20:59:26 GMT -5
If you want to see something then find the Gen13 animated movie online. it's like the bad Justice League pilot that never aired on TV.
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