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Post by Mark Walsh on Oct 25, 2006 15:36:45 GMT -5
I suppose this could have gone on in the EC thread... but why not create more clutter?
So. In the 10/10 Editor's Choice thread, Ingram said he prefered characters to be as different as the settings in alternate realities - that writers were to dependent on on the established mainstream interpretations, and didn't forge enough of their own ways. So would the rest of you agree, or not?
Is it still X-men if, for a totally random example, Iceman's a flamboyantly gay, stock market analyst?
I say yes. I say "X-men" is about larger themes of discrimination and prejudice.
But here's another question... is it still fanfiction if the characters are nearly unrecognizable? If I call one character Captain America, and another one Iron Man, am I automatically writing fanfiction, no matter what I do with it? Or am I the only one curious about this?
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Post by Cory W. on Oct 25, 2006 19:32:20 GMT -5
I personally think that Ingram's a flamboyantly gay stock market analyst. I have video tapes to prove this.
Regardless, I think that there are instances when alternate world fanfiction is done "wrong." A good example of an alternate version of a character is when their same initial concept is taken and given a twist as opposed to when an alternate version of a character is merely born a different person. Sometimes, characters can be just a little too far removed from their primary concepts to actually be considered alternate versions, and I think that there should be one major difference in an alternate world - or maybe a handful of differences - that causes every slternate character to be different as a result of those differences.
What is it in Alternate Iceman's life that was different from Mainstream Iceman that made him a gay stock market analyst as opposed to a straight adventurer? If there's nothing to explain this and the alternate world he lives in is very much the same as the mainstream world then I think this story's not likely a very good "alternate" concept. You can't just have a character be different for the sake of being different. I think something has to cause them to deviate from their mainstream counterpart.
A good alternate story like this would be, "What If Iceman Never Joined The X-Men?" In this alternate world, Iceman's father dies of a heart attack before his mutant powers ever manifested, and his mother moves across the country to live with her sister in a more liberal city where sexual exploration and even mutant power manifestations are accepted, and so he develops a relationship with a man and downplays his mutant abilities, not seeing them as anything particularly amazing. This would be a sharp contrast to Redneck County (where Bobb-o was nearly lynched) where there are more pressures for Bobby to pursue only heterosexual relationships and a immense fear of mutants. Bobby lives a normal life, never meets Xavier, goes to college, and is able to pursue his interest in math. There has to be a very logical sequence to what makes this character so different from his mainstream counterpart.
In the meanwhile, the writer would have to explore what the world would be like without Iceman as an X-Man. One would argue that if Iceman had never joined the X-Men then the team would have died on their first mission (since he saved the team from a fuel tanker being chucked at them by Magneto). Magneto succeeds in his mission, an all out war with humanity begins to build, and over the course of a decade or so the war finally reaches Iceman, who's forced to defend the city he's been living in since his father died from Magneto's impending forces, even with his underdeveloped skills with his powers.
Another good example (IMO) is the Age Of Apocalypse, an alternate world where a key element - Professor Xavier - was removed from the world. That caused mutant/human relations to change entirely and we saw how the world was effected by him not assembling and training the X-Men. We saw what Iceman would be like if he had a strict and overbearing teacher training him for war (Magneto), as opposed to a passive and lenient teacher training him for a lifelong peace keeping mission (Xavier).
Hmm... that was a lot longer post than I thought it'd turn out to be. Hope it makes sense!
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Post by thehebrewhammer on Oct 25, 2006 21:23:47 GMT -5
I always love the idea of alternate realities. I was a big big fan of the What If series. My chief goal when going to comic conventions would be to find cheap What If issues to buy and read. I was a big fan of Marvel's Mutant X series, even though it got a little bit hokey and was panned by reviewers. I loved loved loved Age of Apocalypse, but didn't bother with the recent revisit.
So anyways, there are absolutely things I consider when thinking about how I'm going to put a character into the Marvel Fantasy universe. I have the benefit of re-writing the entire Marvel Universe into my own story, so I can pick and choose with each character what I want to do. There are some characters that I try to keep essentially the same. The Wrecking Crew isn't different at all really. There are others that you'll barely recognize, although they have yet to appear.
The thing with alternate fanfiction and stories is that you're building off of the reader's normal expectations of characters and the concurrent expectation that something is going to be different. That puts a lot of power in the writer's hands. I promise you there's a big revelation at the end of the first act of Marvel Fantasy that's just going to mess with your head.
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Post by brawl2099 on Oct 26, 2006 17:33:47 GMT -5
I personally think that Ingram's a flamboyantly gay stock market analyst. I have video tapes to prove this. I've suspected this for so long...
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Post by Brent Lambert on Nov 1, 2006 7:53:43 GMT -5
While I definately agree with Cory's stance on alternate worlds I also think the whacked out, kooky ones are just as much fun to play with as well. I actually think alot in terms of ramifications, consequences, and stuff in my own writing so I can look at M2K and develop like a hundred What If? stories. But at the same time at my Exiles (over at Pendragons) series I also get to just go wild and create completely off the wall worlds.
But I think if you want to do any kind of extended alternate story Cory's approach may be the better way. If you're just looking to have fun for a lil bit I don't think going completely haywire is such a bad idea.
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Post by Jeff Melton on Nov 3, 2006 19:47:41 GMT -5
I'm certainly a fan of alternate Earths, and there are plenty of opportunities for stories with all kinds of them. There are several points of divergence that can be used (ala What If?), but there are many other things that can be done, with different versions of various characters as well.
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Post by Christopher Oliva on Dec 24, 2006 3:41:49 GMT -5
I am all for alternate reality stories, but I think the problem with What If...? And its Marvel canon run was the fact that writers would get too greedy. To answer, "What if Captain America combed his hair" several key characters would die just for the sake that it doesn't matter and add weight to the story.
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Post by Gary Jones on Dec 24, 2006 9:34:52 GMT -5
Some of my favourite Marvel stories are from What If?
What If? Iron Man had been a traitor, What If? Iron Man had been tapped in Camelot (the Dazzler story that issue wasn't very good though), What If? Venom had possessed the Punisher and my personal favourite What If? Secret Wars, 25 years later.
Lord there are so many good ones that it's hard just to nail them down to those few.
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Post by Cory W. on Dec 24, 2006 15:19:43 GMT -5
If you guys dig the "What If...?" stuff then you should really check out the first in our new WI...? anthology by Matt Hrubey over in the Alternate Branch. It was a pretty kickass story!
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