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Post by Kristi Manchester on Jul 24, 2006 14:06:35 GMT -5
What does the FF bring to NY and what does NY bring to the FF? I mean besides the potential crossovers...I kinda don't see what else comes out of this beyond just a move to their old stomping grounds. Well, anyway I can have Wolverine kick the Things face in now, thats a plus...heck even take on the whole FF...though I have no actual story reason yet but if I try way hard I can find one!
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Post by Cory W. on Jul 24, 2006 14:19:06 GMT -5
On the DEFENDERS front, you've shown a few times recently that you have NO idea about much in regards to that book or why it ended the way it did, so I'd advise you not pretend that you do. How's that for antagonistic? ... What are you talking about? When did this hapen? I've never reviewed Defenders, talked to you about Defenders, or formally discussed Defenders with anyone on any public forum. That statement isn't antagonistic. It's fictional. ... Who said any of that? I was kind of the EiC back then, so if I said that... y'know... I think I'd remember. I don't think Brent said that because he was the one who had a plot settled to wrap up your story, so he obviously understood it. Heh, oy. There's this really awesome violin in Delaware that I heard about, Raz. It's the size of a hot wheel and it's playing a song just for you and no one else.
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Post by D. Golightly on Jul 24, 2006 14:31:51 GMT -5
You keep telling people how hard your Defenders run was to comprehend...mind explaining it then? You're the only one I've ever heard of saying that people "just didn't get it." Perhaps the fault wasn't on the reader's part.
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Chris Munn
Virgin-4-Lyfe
Author of the Book of Sins
Posts: 100
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Post by Chris Munn on Jul 24, 2006 14:51:39 GMT -5
Just a few comments:
Raz, Cory, each of you have valid points. Please don't start arguing with each other over something as trivial as this. I agree with a lot of what you said, Raz, even though I'm still of the mind that resolving Jason's Pittsburg plot is the best way to go.
Also, DEFENDERS. The series wasn't hard to comprehend, but it WAS much more intelligent than most typical fanfiction stories. Derrick Ferguson has said numerous times that he felt the series was "too smart" for this site - and while I don't know about all of that, the Raz/Greg DEFENDERS was certainly a hard sell for a predominant superhero site like this. Personally, I loved that god damn book...but I could see why others would scratch their heads and wonder what the point was if they weren't willing to put much thought into it.
And to make this a productive post, everyone run and read Bowie's first issue of MIDNIGHT SONS. Fucking great, that is.
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Post by brawl2099 on Jul 24, 2006 17:07:46 GMT -5
Bowie= great.
Haven't read Midnight Sons yet, but knowing him...
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Post by Cory W. on Jul 24, 2006 17:39:18 GMT -5
The Mack Daddy has spoken. On my way to class I realized that this thread got a bit out of hand for some reason or another and I was considering shutting it down when I got back, but Chris has already said it all. Let's move on, folks.
Speaking of Midnight Sons, Bowie's said that he hopes that Midnight Sons #2 should be completed and ready for release in early August. I've read the outline for this series and let me tell ya, Midnight Sons #2 is where things really start to heat up.
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Post by Gary Jones on Jul 24, 2006 19:07:32 GMT -5
To me the Fantastic Four are very insular, in that they don't go outside their own little group unless they are forced to.
The FF haven't gone far beyond what the masters Stan Lee and Jack Kirby established about them but what has moved them on is how they are viewed and interact with the other superheroes of the Marvel Universe.
Perhaps there is a way to make them work outside that enviroment but it would take better ideas and a better writer than I to do so.
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Dino Pollard
Aspiring Loser
Former Writer of Just About Everything
Posts: 26
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Post by Dino Pollard on Jul 24, 2006 22:45:13 GMT -5
Here's my thoughts for what they count. Keep in mind I haven't read FF since Will Short's (sadly) truncated run on the title, so I don't really know anything about their current status quo other than what's been said in this thread.
Personally, I agree with both Kristi and Raz (although I think Raz got a bit carried away when explaining his points). I don't really see the need to bring the FF back to New York for a few reasons.
First off, as it has already been mentioned, New York is crowded with superheroes as is. I think it's great that some writers have transplanted heroes to new locales that haven't been given a lot of exposure (FF in Pittsburgh, Scarlet Spider in Baltimore).
Second, as Raz already mentioned, the city is pretty immaterial with a book about a team of explorers. And as Kristi said, what does the FF bring to New York and vice versa? Especially given the fact that JJ had far more drastic changes happen (Johnny's bi, Ben and Alicia are married, Franklin's hit puberty) than moving the team to Pittsburgh. To me, it almost seems a bit pointless to move them back to New York. Some of the reasoning for having the FF go back to New York doesn't really ring as a good enough reason -- Ben's poker night, Spidey and the Torch hanging out -- have these things been a very big staple of M2K's FF title? Because I don't really recall them. And even if they were, some of those staples have been done to death.
Third, and this isn't really directed at M2K's FF, but at the FF in general. It seems that far too many writers (both in comics and fanfic) prefer to keep the status quo of the FF that has been in place since Stan Lee wrote the book. FF should be high-end sci-fi, exploring new worlds and new frontiers, but they frequently find themselves involved in the same places with the same characters over and over again. Gary was right when he said the FF is very insular. In my opinion, it's the most insular title in comics and fanfic, even beating out the X-Men (which is frequently cited as the most insular). I disagree when he said that what's moved them forward is the way they interact with the rest of the MU, because I don't really see that. And even still, that purpose seems contrary to the concept of the book.
As far as Defenders goes, I can definitely vouch for Raz's reasoning for pulling the issues. Raz and Greg's Defenders story-arc was not a typical story-arc you see in fanfic. It had a different kind of structure. I remember there were complaints about people "not getting it" and Raz was asked several times to finish the title -- not necessarily by editors, but by readers. I know, because he and I had a few discussions about it. Removing the series wasn't something Raz wanted to do, but he decided he would make it easier on M2K by pulling the issues.
Comparing the situations behind FF and Defenders is a bit unfair. Anyone can write an FF based in a hi-tech Pittsburgh as opposed to New York, but very few can write a very literary Defenders, and the line-up from that run is one I doubt anyone other than Raz or Greg would feel comfortable writing.
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Post by D. Golightly on Jul 25, 2006 12:02:34 GMT -5
I think it might be best if we stopped the FF discussion. Munn sort of wrapped it up with his comment and anything else runs the risk of opening that can of worms again. With our new editor structure, we're trying to stay far away from arguments and the history M2K has had with them. Points have been made (valid on both sides) and there's nothing left to be said. If there are more comments, keep them clean.
Plus, this convo was already redirected at Bowie Sessions, and he's the flavor of the month. Yay Bowie!
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Post by Cory W. on Jul 25, 2006 12:19:59 GMT -5
Golightly's right. Though I myself can't help but snark at the snarkers sometimes, even I said we should move on. M2K hasn't had a flame war in over a year and we're not about to have one now over something as retarded as geography.
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Post by barryreese on Jul 25, 2006 13:13:22 GMT -5
Wow... I had no idea that my story had gotten so much attention ;-)
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